Episode 21- Help!

EP 21 – Help!

Introduction: Charities couldn’t survive without their volunteers, we could all do with a little help from our friends. Inflammatory, with Debbie Wilson and Katy Pieris, navigating life with inflammatory arthritis.

Debbie: Hello and welcome to Inflammatory with Debbie

Katy: and Katy.

Debbie:  How are you, Katy? Have you been attacked by any more paper swords?

Katy: No more paper swords, but my husband did find his old lightsaber for my son after his craziness with all the paper swords. We thought we’d get down something more to attack us with.

Debbie: Right, and how did that go?

Katy: Oh, it was okay. We’ve got a lovely little video of him going whoosh, whoosh, and it makes all the noises. So yeah, fun times, you know, household. How about you Debbie?

Debbie: Yeah, fun times. I must make a confession, I’ve never seen a Star Wars film, so I don’t actually know what you’re talking about.

Katy: Oh, what the hell? So I’ve just started watching the new series Andor that my husband’s been raving about. I’m not a Star Wars fan in terms of like the old Star Wars. My dad used to make us watch them and I hated them, but I do actually quite like some of the new series that sort of Disney Plus have brought out. So anyway, moving on.

Debbie:  Okay. It all just went over my head there, I’ve got, I don’t know anything, but my week has been good. Really busy. I was in Manchester yesterday and thankfully the train connections did work, but I realised I can still sprint when I need to get a train because I had to change at Milton Keynes to get the train back to Watford and it should have been 10 minutes connection time, but delays and obviously there’s only been about eight minutes. So, I had to sprint from platform four to platform one and the woman was telling me where to go. So, I was like, thank you. So yes, but got home very late, but really interesting day. The charity is a research partner for some new research going on. We haven’t gone out for funding yet, so I can’t really talk much about it, but it was a really, really interesting day and so many ideas, but it’s really interesting that the data that you think is being collected actually isn’t. And so, when researchers have these amazing research questions, trying to then find out the evidence for it all, the data’s actually missing. So it is kind of to do with the school data and there’s EChild, which is a huge database of children’s educational outcomes. But what we want to try and work out is more about children with JIA, whether they actually have more or worse educational outcomes because of having the disease. But the data that we generally need for it is kind of missing, which is, there are things we can do around it.

Katy: Because what would be missing? So, is it what’s how it’s kind of transferred between kind of the education system and the health care systems or?

Debbie: Yes, and all school systems collect different data.

Katy: So yeah, it’s just a bit like about health, everything’s different on different platforms.

Debbie: Even within, yeah, there was a researcher there from Leeds talking because he’s doing a lot of work around the individual health care plan, which any child with any health condition should have. This is very different to the educational health care plan, that’s the HCP, which you get funding for, for like for SEND.

Katy: Right, yeah.

Debbie: But for individual one, you don’t. It’s just literally just how the school should look after the child with any condition, whether it’s JIA, whether it’s asthma, whether it’s epilepsy, just so everyone’s aware of what the school should be doing. But the form by the Department for Education is very, obviously, very government. But it’s not really done by children to kind of get out what the children should be doing. It’s by parents and health care professionals. But then the children aren’t, as they’re not really involved that much, they don’t know how to advocate for themselves so much in school. But how that is…

Katy: What age of children? What age is this?

Debbie: Any child in school should have one. But yeah, even, you know, because obviously as a parent, I was obviously there as kind of a parent as well, but obviously mainly for the charity side, is that when you give your child to the school, you know, when you send them to school, you’re giving the school the most precious thing to you. And you want to know that they’re being looked after properly. So, you do all these forms and everything, you give them all the information. But we know that sometimes that just doesn’t happen because consider how many long-term health conditions that the children can have, how many there are in school. It’s obviously then tough for the teachers to work out what each child should be having. So, it’s really quite hard. And my heart goes out to the schools, you know, everything that they have to do as well. It’s not the school’s fault. It’s kind of, can we now change the forms so that the child is more involved, and they can then advocate better for themselves whilst they’re in school?

Katy: So, kind of them saying what they need out of school rather than them being told by the school what they need. Is that what you mean?

Debbie: A little bit, but more for the child knowing to be empowered. Obviously, we’re all about empowering people with their diseases anyway, and especially for children, because I think children, well for me anyway, I felt so much shame about talking about it. But hopefully this can help them to really be empowered to start talking, whether it is just to a few teachers to say, look, I have this disease. I can’t sit cross legged in assemblies. That really hurts. Can I have a chair? But making sure that they can then advocate for themselves if they know what they need. They can say, actually, no, I can’t sit cross legged today.

I’m kind of flaring. Can I have a chair? But then also, there’s a balance also, because I remember being in school, you don’t want to be different either. But it’s just if we can just give those children just a little bit more on how to advocate for themselves, it should be a little bit easier. But yeah, but even within the trust school, because I think a few schools now are sitting within a trust, a bit like hospitals sit in a bigger trust. And how they collect data, again, is very, very different.

Katy: Yeah, but it was a really, I guess with secondary school, you’ve got all the academies and

Debbie: well, actually, academies can be any age.

Katy: Yeah, it can be any age actually now. It was when I first finished school that they brought in the academies in secondary education. But now most schools are part of a big group, aren’t they? Yeah.

Debbie: And yeah, but each school can collect data very differently. So, it’s just really interesting to kind of see what goes on out there when you have the amazing research questions, and you really want to try and find out the answers. But it just kind of is, yeah, it can be going down a rabbit hole of misinformation and misdata. But very interesting. But this week, we are mainly going to be talking about volunteering because it’s Volunteers Week. So, Katy, we kind of met when you were volunteering for charities and doing lots of other work outside of your full-time work. So, can you explain what you’ve been doing with your spare time?

Katy: Yeah. So, I think I started volunteering probably when I was about 13. So, when I was in dance classes, when you got to sort of the senior ages, the expectation was that you would help with kind of like the baby ballet, baby tap, things like that. So, from about 13 on a Saturday, I do my own classes from sort of 9 till 11. Then 11 till 1 would be spent sort of helping out with the younger kids. And luckily, that led to a paid job when I was 14, when I became a ladies tap teacher. I used to help the ladies with their bronze medal award, which is quite fun.

Debbie: I remember you saying something about tap years, yeah, a while ago. Yeah. I need to see you do some tap dancing, Katy.

Katy: I can still do the time step routine. It’s embedded in my head. I will do it one day for you. Maybe that can be an Instagram post

Debbie: or TikTok, when we get on TikTok,

Katy: let’s get TikTok going. So other volunteering, so I did the Duke of Edinburgh when I was about 15 and I honestly can’t remember what I did for my volunteering. I think it was something that I already did. So, it was probably either dance teaching or helping tennis coaching. So just sort of helping out with younger kids. And then I guess a lot of my time outside of my paid job is spent volunteering. So obviously, as you know, I volunteer for this charity. This is volunteering. And then I’ve also volunteered for the last kind of 10 years, I think, with other inflammatory arthritis charities. And then I’ve also, I’m the treasurer of my local netball team. So, I’ve been doing that now for about 15 years. So, that entails kind of the running of the day to day for the netball club. I’ve got had to get us out of a very sticky situation post-COVID because we ran out of money because we weren’t taking subscriptions because we weren’t training, and we weren’t playing. And then we pretty quickly ran out of money. And then it’s kind of, you know, making sure that we’ve got a team for each match. So, I also captain one of the teams throughout the winter season. So, yeah, lots of different bits. So, I quite enjoy volunteering because you get to expand your skill set outside of what you might do on a normal day to day basis. And I just think it’s something that’s really helpful. And another thing I’ve done is parkrun. If you run parkrun regularly, the sort of expectation is that you will volunteer for parkrun every sort of six weeks or so. I have to admit, I’ve not volunteered for parkrun for a while, but I also haven’t really run a parkrun for a while because Saturday mornings, my son plays tennis. So, I can’t do, I can’t do it. And I’ve taken my son to volunteer as well for parkrun. So cool. He’s had to wear a high-vis vest and ring the bell on a certain corner.

Debbie: Oh, that’ll make him look important, surely.

Katy: Yeah, yeah. And then I’ve done, I think I’ve once volunteered on Christmas Day for parkrun as well. And it’s such a lovely atmosphere. And I’ve mainly parkrun, how many times can I say parkrun? I’ve mainly parkrun volunteered when I’ve had injuries as well. So even though I can’t participate, I would go, and either be a barcode scanner or that sort of thing.

Debbie: Oh, cool. Well, like you, I did the Duke of Edinburgh’s award as well. It was a bit tricky with my JIA, to be honest. Yeah, the first, because you have to do like a long hike. The first one I did it on the first day, my hips, because I had to wear the big backpack. My hips were just absolutely killing me. And so, the instructors, we didn’t get on that well. And so, they then failed me. I did say, look, if I stayed overnight, can I? But I just couldn’t lay on the floor because obviously you’re just in a tent. The mattresses, this is back in the 90s. So, the mattresses just didn’t really exist. It’s like a roll of foam that was about a millimetre thick. So, then they said, no, if you go back tonight, we will still pass you. So, I was like, fine. So, I did. And then they then failed me because of it. So, I then had to redo it. But then I was on crutches and then going up and down. It was Box Hill in Surrey. I don’t know if you’ve done that because obviously you live nearby. It can be quite steep and with crutches because my legs and yeah, it wasn’t the best. But the volunteering side, I did music theory because I got so involved in piano. But when I was then flaring, so I then couldn’t play the piano, I got really involved in the theory side. But if you want to do grades, I think it’s five, six and seven and eight onwards. You have to have passed grade five theory. So, it’s all really, it’s really exciting. And I found it very exciting, sort of side of it all, learning about how compositions are made. And so, I taught children how to pass a grade five theory, which was so lovely. And most of them got distinctions. And then I stayed on a bit like you stayed on there working. That was my Saturday mornings. And it was it was just really good fun. It was using your skills that you already have to pass on.

Katy: Yeah.

Debbie: Because I think when then I went into work and people say it was a volunteering day. Everyone assumes that that is a really physical activity that you have to do. Because I then went and did, I cleared graveyards in a very, very weird place, East London. And it was very, but you just got to see it was, it was just bizarre. Because obviously people have been dead for many, many years. Yeah. And just the age ranges, they obviously were, they don’t live, they didn’t live obviously as long as we live now. And so, it was just, yeah, it was interesting, but a weird day.

Katy: If you have to volunteer through work, it feels a bit more like forced volunteering than, you know, doing it because you want to. I don’t know if you’ve got it, because I’ve never really participated in kind of forced work volunteering. I get an email pretty much monthly where I am now, but I tend to ignore it.

Debbie: Well, I think where I was, it was, it felt very forced that you had to do this. And even in one of my previous jobs, yeah, we went to, I think it was Hampstead Heath and was clearing plant. Again, a very physical, and it was actually one of the hottest days of the year. It was unbearably hot, but it felt very much that you had to do this kind of things. And it was, and as you say, I then didn’t really enjoy it that much because it’s something that I wasn’t, you know, I do gardening here, you know, I happily do it. But when you kind of feel like you’re forced to do it and then you’re forced to kind of then collaborate with your colleagues and everything to be a bit, you want to then have a chat with them, but then you can’t chat and do physical work. So, it’s what I want to know, what is the aim of this from a corporate side? But obviously when you go out and you kind of clear things, I get it from their businesses side and that, you know, the charities that we go work for. But what actually are we meant to get out of it? Because otherwise you can feel very disheartened with it all. And then you come back shattered, and I did as well. But where I think volunteering, I think it just kind of needs to change the narrative a little bit of thinking that it is a forced thing because it’s not at all. Volunteering in the whole means it’s giving up your time. So, for me, I really enjoy volunteering that I do now. It’s where my passion is. It’s not the physical side of it all. It is using the skills that I’ve got, whether that’s as a patient, as a parent, lived obviously so many years, over 40 odd years of lived experience.

Katy: But also, do you think, so do you think that volunteering in this way kind of helps you deal with your disease better?

Debbie: I think so, because I think it makes me feel that I’m not alone with this. I don’t feel shame with it anymore. And I get to talk about it, and you get to meet other people that I probably would never have met before. In other words, I’ve never met you. No.

Katy: And the reason I began volunteering with charities within this sort of sector originally was to try and meet people like myself that were dealing with the disease in a similar way to I was. I mean, I have to admit, I probably met a handful of people, yourself included. It didn’t quite do what I wanted it to do for myself. But I do know you do get kind of a real feeling of self-satisfaction if you feel like you’ve just kind of maybe helped one person with their day. So, I did a bit of peer-to-peer support via the telephone. The telephone? That sounds very 1990s.

Debbie: It does. Yes. Gosh, who actually uses a phone anymore?

Katy: Where I just kind of call, I mean, people would register and then I’d call them up and have a chat with them about, I guess, how I’ve dealt with a similar situation. It wasn’t about advice, but it was about talking through how I dealt with, maybe it was my diagnosis, parenting. I mean, pretty similar, to be honest, to doing this podcast, but just in a different kind of way.

Debbie: Yeah. I suppose we’re hopefully reaching more people than a one-to-one kind of phone call. But yeah, I think it’s really interesting that people don’t realise the skills that they’ve got and the information and the knowledge that they’ve got already and how we can bring the lived experience in. But it benefits so many people. Because a bit like you, I kind of felt that I kind of met a few people with Adult JA, not many, but I would love to meet more. The ones I have met, their stories are so similar to me. And, you know, growing up in like the 80s and the 90s, where there wasn’t, Google didn’t exist, where’d you get that information? And I felt very alone growing up at that time. And I remember I was on holiday, I think, with my parents and I did say to my dad, I’d love to get involved and find people like me to kind of just to learn from each other as well. And I didn’t know how, because obviously there was no internet and that didn’t happen. But obviously things have really changed. And now this is why we’re doing the charity, which is Inflammatory Arthritis UK, is run by us. We are volunteers. We don’t get paid for any of this at all.

Katy: What do you think makes a good volunteer?

Debbie: I think you have to have a passion for what it is that you want to volunteer for. Because obviously I’m a trustee for two other charities as well. They are both in the arthritis one, so, well, ARMA, which is the Arthritis Musculoskeletal Alliance, which unfortunately I will be leaving at the end of this month. And the Teapot Trust, which is art therapy for children. There where my passion lies, I really want the mental health side has to be covered. And I think for children, knowing what they go through, I wouldn’t want to be a child now. There is so many, life has changed so much for them. Dealing with all the social media, just dealing with you want information now and quickly. But there’s so much misinformation out there. So, their mental health, how that impacts their mental health must be so, so hard. And then having a long-term health condition on top of that, I think that’s where I’m very, very passionate about. And for ARMA, I’m there as a child and young person’s champion to really make sure that all their work does include that part of society. Because children are a generally forgotten part of society. And all throughout all my work, even in my previous career, it was always about children and young people because they are our future. You know, if we don’t get it right now, they could have so many issues growing up, which will cost the economy more. But if we do get it right, they can really benefit the economy and help us as society. So, you know, for me, it’s a no brainer. Why wouldn’t you? But obviously I’m not a politician, but that really helps me. And I know that I’m doing some good. But I also know that I have the time for it. I think sometimes it can be, oh, I don’t know if I’ve got enough time. But for me, it doesn’t feel like work, though. It feels like I’m trying to do something good. How about you, though? What do you think makes a good volunteer?

Katy: I think because I think volunteering, there’s got to be a strong level of commitment from the person. It I mean, it depends on what it is. But I think through my time of volunteering, a lot of people tend to dip in and out. And obviously that can completely depend on their kind of circumstances, how busy they are in their jobs, in their life, with their families. But I think that sort of consistency and being able to commit your time can really kind of help whatever organisation it is that you’re volunteering for. When people quite often I’ve seen volunteers that will just sort of drop off the radar without any communication. So, I do think there’s got to be a good level of communication in terms of kind of, you know, if it is a bad time, just make sure people are aware of that so that they’re not hassling you to get involved with something that you don’t want to get involved with. So, it’s that transparency and being sort of open and honest. But also, I think it’s looking for opportunities that really fit your own skill set. So, if you’re brilliant with social media, you can there’s lots of people kind of calling out for social media help. If you’re great at talking to people, you know, there’s lots of different ways, depending on who you are, what your background is, that you can be helpful. You know, if you if you are an accountant, which I’m not, I’m still the treasurer of my netball. Terrible with spreadsheets.

Debbie: Oh, I love a spreadsheet. Oh, I’ll do it.

Kay: But also, sometimes it can be about developing slightly different skills that you might want to get better at, whether it, you know, you might want to be better at something. So, volunteering for somebody can help you develop new skills. Like doing this podcast has definitely made me find it easier to do any form of public speaking. So, I ran a training session last week at work, which I think I potentially might have shied away from previously. So, you know, doing all these different things can then enable you to do things elsewhere in your life.

Debbie: Yeah, I completely agree. Because I must admit, being a trustee when I first started about three years ago, I was a bit like, oh, I’m not really too sure. Can I do that? I didn’t really know what a trustee generally was. But obviously, it’s just ensuring that, you know, the charity is doing what it should do for the public benefit, the governance of it, managing the charity assets and the financial duties as well. But it’s just acting in the best interest for that charity. So, you have to be really knowing what that charity is and have a, you know, a bit of a passion, a bit of your heart’s in it, basically, it needs to be.

Katy: Yeah, but you’ve got to be passionate about it. Otherwise, you’re not, you aren’t going to give it your all. And it has to be about kind of, you know, doing it for the right purposes, not to make yourself look good.

Debbie: Completely, because, you know, you are then accountable for that charity as well. And not everyone can be there. I’ll put it on, you know, our show notes about who can be a trustee and not, because obviously it is your time that you’re giving up as well. And sometimes reading through board papers isn’t the most exciting thing to do, but you’re generally there to kind of make a difference. But also, as I said before, I’ve met so many people I’ve never would have worked with before. Amazing people, someone who is the orthopaedic surgeon for the Beefeaters at the Tower of London, amazing guy. Worked with him, physios just elsewhere that you never would have met. And it’s really helped me think about, A, how our charities are run, giving me that really great insight. And also how, not for obviously ARMA or anything, but other, you know, working in other charities, how they shouldn’t be run. You know, you just pick up so many things and thinking strategically, where do we want to see the charity go? And I think I’ve brought that into obviously creating Inflammatory Arthritis UK, because for me, it’s really exciting getting into the projects, looking at the strategic direction of it all and where we can go from there. But making sure that we have the right people on the board as well. People have the different skills. You know, we’ve got someone with obviously have to shout out to our amazing trustees. They are so lovely, and they’ve really helped us kind of think about where we want to take the charity as well. So, someone’s got, you know, over 30 odd years of experience. He used to run his own charity. And again, other people have worked in the charity sector and bring kind of like policy side in as well to really kind of think us more strategically policy wise, where do we want to go? And also, that we want to have an expert advisory board as well, which I’m recruiting for. So please do get in touch. It’s people for any part of, you know, the multidisciplinary team and also people with lived experience. You are expert in your own right as well. So, we would love to have you either on our trustee board or our expert advisory board. But also, we are looking for people, as you say, Katy, before for volunteers to do like the admin side. If you’re good at social media, please get in touch. Finance, if you’re good at writing grants and trusts as well, that takes so much time behind the scenes. And if you’ve got that skill set, we would, you know, even if it’s like an hour a month or two hours a month, we would be so grateful for that because it can really help change how the charity goes and the direction it takes.

Katy: And you can be part of helping to shape what we do next.

Debbie: Exactly. Again, this is, I find it really exciting because obviously we are a new charity. You can be, your voices, everyone’s equal on the board anyway, but your voices can really be heard to help change and shape how we go forward. I think it’s just proving that volunteering shouldn’t be that forced physical activity day. It can be, go with your gut, go with your heart and actually what you feel is useful. There’ll be so many charities out there that need your help or become a treasurer like Katy with no experience.

Katy: I mean, GCSE.

Debbie: But how did you get into that though?

Katy: Basically, the committee of Netball, they were desperate for people to be on it and just asked me and then I’ve never left. I can’t be doing that bad a job because they haven’t kicked me off.

Debbie: No, I must admit I was actually on a committee for the local kayaking group, which, yeah, it was interesting when we did that over COVID. And again, that’s when you couldn’t do anything. So again, finances took a hit and stuff,

Katy: but we nearly had to shut down post COVID because we lost loads of members because a lot of people moved out of the area. And then it was just so everything went up in price. So, venues, umpires, you wouldn’t believe how much Netball umpires are getting paid at the moment. They’re not volunteers, no chance. They also quite often want to be paid for their petrol and their travel. Anyway, going off on a complete tangent. Very much.

Debbie: I thought they were volunteers.

Katy: Oh, OK. No, no, all the umpires get paid. But the people that run like the leagues, they’re volunteers and the people that most of the people that will run the clubs, but coaches and umpires are paid. And the cost of venues is insane.

Debbie: Right. Because I must admit, I did volunteer for Brownies and Rainbows and guys when my children were with that.

Katy: Talking of gardening, I was sweeping our local beavers hut on Friday night, ended up sweeping outside. They did like a little gardening night, and you have to like, this is forced volunteering, really, because if your child goes, the expectation is that twice per full school term, a parent will volunteer. So, I was helping on the gardening session and gardening is not my forte. I don’t do it at home, but I’m very good at sweeping. I found out.

Debbie: Excellent. That’s, that’s really good to know.

Katy: But I was absolutely dead. I was very tired. It’s much harder than going for a run. Well, this is the thing.

Debbie: This is where physical activity, it can be. And I suppose bringing it back to even like the 1% thing, it isn’t just having to go and do that hour of exercise. Gardening in that can really, really be strenuous and good for you because you’re in the fresh air and you can see what you’ve done, unless you’re Katy and hate gardening.

Katy: But you know, it’s so much mud and dust going down your throat, you’re coughing for about a day after.

Debbie: What do you, how are you gardening?

Katy: I was just sweeping and there’s loads of like bits of mud. Okay. I can’t imagine that.

Debbie: But obviously, obviously Katy, yeah, whatever you do, obviously

Katy: it’s just, it’s so vigorous. Anyway, off we go. Yes.

Debbie: Well, I think we’re coming to the end, but I must admit, I will add this quote in. The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in a service of others. And I think that kind of summarizes what volunteering is. So please do reach out to us. If you’d like to volunteer, you know, you have so many skills that we could really use. So yeah, everything will be on the show notes. So please do get in touch. And next week, I think we have our next guest on, which is very exciting. We’ll have more on that in our newsletter. So please do sign up. We are at inflammatoryarthritis.org and we’re also on Facebook, Blue Sky, Instagram and LinkedIn. So please do follow, like and share where you can. So, until next week, it’s goodbye.

Katy: Goodbye.

In this episode, Debbie and Katy explore the powerful role of volunteering, especially for people living with inflammatory arthritis and chronic conditions, to coincide with volunteer’s week. The hosts share personal stories, practical advice, and inspiration on how giving back, even in small ways, can help you reclaim purpose and build a sense of community.

They stress that meaningful volunteering is about using your strengths and passions, not about forced or physically demanding tasks e.g. clearing grave yards! Through anecdotes and humour, they illustrate the many forms volunteering can take, from peer support to admin roles, and emphasize the impact it can have on both the individual and the wider community.

They also share that Inflammatory Arthritis UK is looking for volunteers and whether you’re an expert in social media, admin, fundraising, grant writers, or would like to join the board of trustees or the expert advisory board, there’s a place for you. If you would like to volunteer for IAUK, please do email info@inflammatoryarthritis.org

🔑 What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

• How volunteering helped us rediscover confidence and connection after diagnosis
• Ways to get involved; without needing physical activity or prior experience
• Behind the scenes of starting a new charity: strategy, structure, and passion
• The power of small contributions (yes, even sweeping counts!)
• How you can join our Trustee Board or Expert Advisory Group
• Volunteer opportunities in admin, social media, grant writing, and more

📣 Get Involved:

We’re actively looking for volunteers to support Inflammatory Arthritis UK. Whether you can give one hour a month or a little more, your skills and lived experience are invaluable.

✅ Interested in volunteering, becoming a trustee, or joining our advisory group?
📩 Contact us via: inflammatoryarthritis.org
💬 Or reach out on: Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | BlueSky

For more information about being a trustee and what it entails please see here.

📝 Quote of the Episode:

“The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others.” – Mahatma Gandhi

📬 Stay Connected:

Sign up to our newsletter for updates, guest announcements, and more at inflammatoryarthritis.org.

🎧 See you next week for another inspiring guest episode!

Disclaimer: The podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice. We talk about our personal health journeys and the podcast is not intended to provide professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. We are not medical professionals and in no way claim to be medically trained. The podcast does not take responsibility for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of the podcast. The podcast does not assume responsibility for the accuracy of third-party content.

For more information, head to https://inflammatoryarthritis.org/