Episode 29 – Can you drink alcohol with IA?

Debbie: Hello and welcome to Inflammatory with Debbie.

Katy: And Katy.

Debbie: How are you today, Katy?

Katy: Yeah, I’m all right. I’ve just been doing cardio tennis on my lunch break, but my quad had, I don’t know, didn’t like it. It felt a bit like it was cramping, it was really weird. So I kind of did more walking cardio tennis. So not quite the same workout as normal.

Debbie: Okay so, what’s cardio tennis? How’s that different to normal tennis?

Katy: So, it’s a fitness class where you basically hit some balls, do some tennis drills, and the coach basically just makes you run a lot and it’s to music. I absolutely love it.

Debbie: That sounds, I’ve never heard of it before, but that sounds amazing.

Katy: No, it’s really good fun. And it’s really good for people who say beginners at tennis because you use, the balls that kids will use when they’re learning to play. they’re a little bit squishier. They’re the same as a normal tennis ball, but I guess they’ve got a slightly different pressure. So they don’t, they bounce differently, and you can’t hit them as hard as like a normal tennis ball. it makes it a little bit more of an even playing field depending on the standard of everyone there.

Debbie: I might have to try it out. I’ll look and see if there’s one local to me. Cause I must admit recently, apart from when my hands were flaring, I was doing boxercise. And that’s really good. I found that so good for my mental health because he was giving you some tip, but kind of right hook, left hook and other boxing movements. And you had to remember that because that was the sequence you were doing and that’s all your mind could focus on because obviously you don’t want to the person you’re partnering with and they then don’t want to hit you so it was I found that really good just to de-stress my mind and you get to punch things so yeah

Katy: No, that’s what I mean. That’s what I think would be, and it’s the same with tennis. You kind of get into like hit a ball. I mean, when I was first diagnosed, I had to quit. So if your wrists on in a good place, I wouldn’t advise playing tennis in any way. But now that my wrists are in a better place, I mean, it’s so, so nice. And because cardio tennis, it’s not about like winning, playing a set or. That kind of thing. It’s more just like you do, you run and hit a forehand, run and hit backhand. Then there’ll be like a drill where you swap with your partner and then towards the end you play like silly games like they will in kids coaching. So, it’s great.

Debbie: I will definitely look that up. Well, this week we’re going to be talking about alcohol and inflammatory arthritis. And we know that it does impact on people’s social lives. And for those living with inflammatory arthritis, is it good for us? Is it bad for us? So yeah, Katy, I just want to know what your experience are with drinking. Do you drink?

Katy: Yeah, I do. Yes, I’m not going to say I don’t. And I always think it’s quite a tricky one because like everything with these diseases, it’s very personal. I mean, I think we all know now that alcohol isn’t really good for anybody’s health. But I think the difficulty for us is just part of our society and our culture and our social lives. When I was first diagnosed and the DMARD that I was first put onto, because you have to have your blood monitored and you have to be super careful about the health of your liver, I didn’t completely stop, but I reduced the amount I was drinking every week.

As mentioned in some of the earlier episodes, I was in my late twenties when I was diagnosed. And I guess actually late twenties is different for everybody because it depends what stage of your life, you’re in.

Debbie: I had two kids then, so I didn’t because I had two children.

Katy: Yeah. Yeah. So that’s quite different because I was thinking about this earlier. Like that sort of age, everyone can be in a completely different, different part of their life. I just moved in with, with, my husband actually. So, I guess I was living further out from London, I wasn’t going out as much as possible, but my job has always been quite kind of sociable and there’s a lot of awards dinners, a lot of sort of client entertainment and that those sorts of activities. And I do remember there was a big, awards event that I think I’d got an appointment anyway the next day. So was the first time in maybe four or five years, I’d not stayed over in London. I’d left before the event finished. I didn’t really have anything to drink, which takes a lot of willpower when everything’s for free. And I am your classic British binge drinker, where I don’t really drink that much at home. wouldn’t have like a glass of wine with dinner or that thing. I drink when I’m out or I’m in a social situation. And I think the biggest danger for me is if I’m out at somebody else’s house, because like when you’re buying and paying for a drink, you can monitor what you’re having. If someone’s just filling your glass, I think that’s when it gets quite tricky. So I think the very short answer is yes, I do. However I am quite conscious of the impact it could have and, thinking about trying to be a bit more careful, but yeah, old habits come back in from time to time.

Debbie: Because it also could well be sort of age as well you know that we don’t we know that sometimes going out on a very heavy night that I’m gonna be in bed for the next day and if I’ve got stuff to do I don’t but probably very much like you I did when I because it took years it’s well thirty years then to get me on long-term treatment. I did drink because I didn’t know any different, as I said, the medications, I didn’t need to be monitored so I could drink. And when I was at university, I did. It was actually when I was 24, when I got diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia, that I had to stop drinking because the sugar and the drinks that I was drinking were so sweet that my dietitian turned around and says, if you keep drinking this, you will die. And that kind of hit me quite hard. it was like… Okay, so I stopped drinking those drinks. And if I do go out, drink it has to be a very dry white wine. And not much of it because again, the alcohol can lower my blood sugar quite a lot. And I do like a gin and tonic, a slimline tonic. But I do drink at home. That’s mainly I think this is where you and I are pretty slightly different. I do drink at home when I’m cooking dinner late in the evening. I would just have a small gin and tonic or a very, it’s not even, I don’t even have like a third of a glass of wine. I just have that just to kind of just keep me going a little bit until dinner’s done and then I can then properly relax. But going back to when you were then, you know, diagnosing you on these conventional DMRDs, I was probably on one very similar. And I was then told, don’t drink the day that you have it. I think medical advice is very different out there. And I did try to, do some research on this and it’s a minefield out there because some researchers say actually no you can drink moderately others say don’t drink at all where this is what I wanted to bring to the podcast because I think again it’s a very personal thing and whether you do want to drink and whether that does then impact on your joints as well because I must admit if I go out on a you know used to go on a very heavy night in my late teens early 20s. I was probably walking in high heels and my joints the next day would absolutely kill. But that’s because I didn’t notice at the time. But the next day I really did notice and actually then I realised that it’s not good for me because I do like to be able to walk the next day whether my joints are fairing or not. So I tried. But that medication side. when I was on these conventional DMARD’s I felt awful. I felt so nauseous.

Katy:  yeah.

Debbie: Actually, the last thing I wanted to do was have a drink.

Katy: Yeah. and I’d say the hangovers, so to speak, from some of those medications, I would say were, I felt worse than an actual hangover.

Debbie: They were awful. And actually, when my daughter went on them as well, that was so hard to see. And for kids that go on these medications, obviously they have to. again, it’s out balancing out that we always say, the medications, it’s so unfortunate it takes months for them sometimes to kick in. But so you’re giving the medication to your children are knowing that actually it’s not working yet, but it will. And seeing their side effects come through because she had them on a Friday night because she didn’t want to have the side effects while she’s in school. But then the side effects kicked in in her weekend, her free time. No. And then, but then when I did then, you know, she’s gone through transition now. So, she’s in young adult care instead of pediatric care. And it is starting to have those conversations with children at that younger age, because it is, as you say, it’s societal things. And I think things are changing nowadays for like the Gen Z group. Alcohol isn’t what it was when we were growing up, which I think is a very good thing. And there are mocktails and there’s non-alcoholic beers.

Katy: Yes, 100%. Yeah. And there’s so many more other options. Yeah. And they’re actually quite nice.

Debbie: Yeah, the things that are too sweet for me, so I can’t even have them. So I did find it frustrating going to a pub and just drinking a Diet Coke because it’s not sweet, but then it has too much caffeine and it’s had to be careful because of my blood sugars, et cetera. But getting back to having that conversation with teenagers, you have to because then also if they do go out drinking and then say they’ve got a blood test in a day or two days’ time. It could come back and then the consultant be like, what’s going on here? And so it’s just making sure that you don’t want to scare children because I think sometimes, they can rebel and be a lot worse.

Katy: Yeah and actually, I was just thinking, as you’re saying that, because my parents didn’t let us drink anything at home, didn’t really want us going to any friends houses where there might be opportunities to drink, but in my opinion, that made when I went to university, I then the forbidden fruit was available and it was, you know, for me to kind of make my own choices and I made the wrong ones and I drank too much. don’t know how you navigate that with a child with JIA and having those conversations and those more, I guess, honest conversations about like, it’s something you might want to do, how it could affect them. But I mean, I don’t know if you’ve got any examples from like what you’ve done with your daughter or the other way around what you wish you’d done. I don’t know.

Debbie: Yeah, I think because we do have, I am very lucky that my daughter and I, well both my daughters and I do have a very open, honest relationship. And they know that, you their dad goes out to the pub, a weekend. I never really used to because I was just stayed at home and looked after them. So they knew that alcohol was a thing, and when he got home from work he would just want to sit down with a beer and just relax a bit because it was a stressful job and so they were aware of it and I did have honest conversations with them because they’re like, what’s dad drinking? Can I have some when they were younger? So, I won’t, when they’re at five or six, no. But when they were sort of starting in their sort of teenage years, it’s like, well, just have a smell. Cause even for me, I can’t even smell beer. It’s just not for me. you can smell it if you want. And obviously the very, very low alcohol ones, they then sort of did try again, because it’s this thing of, I don’t think anyone can ever get it right at all. Whether you stop them from having it or you let them have it because then they might go, this is really nice and they want to keep having them because the ciders, they get onto ciders and they are very sweet. And one, did taste it. It was like a Ribeena. For me, it was horrible. I have it. But it is just having just being open and honest with them and just because obviously they would know that they have to have blood tests anyway.

Katy: I don’t like cider.

Debbie: and just making sure, again, it’s just trying to empower them to understand why they have to have their blood tests. You may not want to sort of say that, you know, it may damage their liver.

Katy: Yeah, because that’s the thing. It’s the sort of scary side, because I was really scared by all that when I was reading all the leaflets. So I don’t know how you navigate that as a parent and knowing that your child wants to, it’s I don’t know, it’s part of growing up as well, isn’t it?

Debbie: I would say in the UK, definitely. I think our culture does seem very different to the ones in Europe, but in Europe, they do drink as well. They were, drinking that with their meals. And I think that is very important.

Katy: Yeah. Yes, and that’s why there’s a bit of a difference.

Debbie: yeah, because we would drink for the sake of drinking, whereas as they say in Europe, they drink with dinner and I think that’s probably the better way to start introducing it. Just have it with a meal. And thankfully my eldest she’s coming off her medication so she doesn’t have to be as wary with them. But I just think for all health though, our relationship with alcohol has got to change in society I think it thankfully is changing slightly.

Katy: Yes, difference with people of work who are in their 20s versus us who are like 40 plus, older. The difference in what people might do with their evenings. It’s not about going for a drink after work. It might be, going and playing paddle, or going to a run club. That’s the, like a run club and a matcher seems to be the kind of cool thing to do.

Debbie: Oh, I must admit that is good. And I was just going to say it’s probably the cost of alcohol as well. The cost of going out for a drink. It’s not cheap. Especially, I suppose lucky, but then sometimes unlucky. We live close to London and then going out in London is not cheap at all. so there is that and actually whether you want to go out drinking or as you say, do something that’s better for your health. And I think it’s great that they’re doing that. I really do.

Katy: Yeah. Yeah. No, 100%.

Debbie: But what do you say though, after you’ve been out drinking, not a heavy night, but do you find that impacts on your joints the next day or not? Or is it hard to say?

Katy: I think it’s really hard to say. So I think I’ve spoken previously that quite often I used to get a flare up in December and that felt like it was the accumulation of nights of drinking, eating poor food. So for me, just a one-off, I don’t think I see a next day impact. But for me, it’s more that sort of accumulation. If I was to do it a couple of weeks in a row or a couple of nights in the same week, that’s when I would have a problem. Because I’ve always been one of those irritating people who I can go out, then the next day I could run a half marathon and I’d not be okay, but I’d be able to get through it. if you know what, a slight exaggeration, but. I don’t really suffer too badly with hangovers.

Debbie: Okay. No, I never used to, but I must admit, I do now. But because I think, again, another reason we’re talking about this is because it is coming up to, you know, you said December, I’m not going to mention the C word at all. But people are planning that in now. And actually, does it make you feel anxiety about, going out for parties and drinking with work colleagues? Because it is also not just the drinking side, is then having, if you’ve got really got to look nice, I’m quite old fashioned though thinking I’d have to wear heels and that, I think we can wear trainers now.

Katy : got some beautiful gold boots. got, I’ve got, train it, got, So I don’t really wear heels anymore, ever. Even though I do still have some, because I think for some reason I’ve got something stupid inbuilt about weddings and actually again, not that I go to any anymore, which I’m too old.

Debbie: I think they’re more divorce parties that I’m invited to. But yeah, I think because I actually went to an event this week with Watford and Three Rivers. They had a community event and I went to network and I met some amazing people who were actually helping us out with the charities, especially kind of IT side, the things that go on behind the scenes. And I did actually wear smart trousers and some small heels that I bought and my knees the next day was like, my God, I can’t do it anymore. And so if I had to go and look smart somewhere, would be, I’d have to get, but I find flat shoes are the same though. They’re completely flat. They do the same because I need, and they’re not good for your feet at all. We’ll have to get another episode on about feet. But I have to have some gradient. Yeah. And a slight cushion as well, cause otherwise my knees do just get that full impact. So yeah, so again, it ties in with anxiety side, what you’re gonna wear, how much you’re gonna drink. Because as you say, it is very easy when they just come and top you, why not?

Katy: Yeah, The other thing for me is well, I can never leave anything. I find it so, so I can set myself like I’m going to get the 9.25 train home. But then I have, I suffer with horrendous FOMO. Not that anything exciting is ever going to happen. I can’t leave. If anyone knows how to help me with that, please, please tell me. Like, I’m so, like, I’ve got an absolute, I’m filling myself with anxiety now. I’ve got a work dinner on Tuesday and I need to set myself an alarm because otherwise, because everybody else is in London and quite a few people are staying over. And it’s okay if you’re staying in a hotel that’s like five minutes away. But when you’ve got to get an hour and 15 train home, you need to factor that into your bedtime hour. That’s the thing I find really hard. then if you’re terrible at leaving things, you end up drinking more. So I’ve got some friends that by 9pm they will always stop drinking.

Debbie: good luck! That’s really good. Even sometimes when I’m out, it depends who I’m out with, just thinking the last time I was in London and drink, yeah, instead of buying me a glass of wine, he just kept buying bottles of wine, I just didn’t realise how much I was then drinking and then I didn’t realise the time, so gosh, it’s midnight, I’ve got to get home. But then, I think it’s, I’m trying think of the word, it’s discipline. You just need that discipline and I’m gonna generally…

Katy: Yes, self-discipline.

Debbie: And I’m not genuinely that good at self-discipline, I’m now realising. But I suppose it’s just training yourself to try and be more like that.

Katy: Yeah. So when, when I’ve run marathons, I’ve been quite disciplined like the month before I won’t drink because of impact that will, I mean, at my level, we’re talking not really that much impact. It’s not like I’m trying to get a world record, but no, but in my mind, I think, it might, it’ll help. yeah, who knows? I mean, I’ve still never run the time I wanted to.

Debbie: Yeah.Not like a Paula Radcliffe. Maybe one day you might, I know you’re not going to do any more but maybe with your 10k’s you might though.

Katy: Yeah. So I can be disciplined if there’s a real reason is what I think I’m trying to say. But why can’t I just do it all of the time? I feel like this is a therapy session, Debbie.

Debbie: Right. I wish I knew the answers. really don’t. But I must admit though, I’m also rubbish with self-discipline. I’m not very good at all. But then I find also the next day I am so much more fatigued. Whether that is just whether I’ve had, even if I haven’t had that much alcohol, I will feel, but it’s probably because I’ve been out a bit later, not having my normal routine. And I think Sarah picked up on this when we spoke to her a couple of weeks ago, that she does seem to be very self-disciplined and she will stop and then she will go home. And it is hard, but I think it’s also trying to put yourself first and actually realizing what is good for your health and what’s not. And whether you’re flaring as well, I think so. But then if I’m flaring, I generally won’t go out. think again, I mentioned last week’s episode when it’s painful, I do not want to be involved in society. not, I just rather be at home and just, yeah, sit with myself.

Katy: Yeah.

Debbie: But it is hard because it is that impact on our social lives and our lives that unless you didn’t have inflammatory arthritis you wouldn’t know that all these things have to go on behind the scenes. actually, again, it’s that balancing thing of whether you do go out and what the consequences are or if you don’t. Because again, you’ve then got that fear of missing out. So it is hard.

Katy: Yeah, and it’s, yeah, because as you’ve said, the kind of balance of, you know, what you’ll get out of the social occasion, but then what’s the pain point of the next day as a result of that.

Debbie: Completely. so it is, again, it’s very personal. It’s what is good for you. And I do just think it is a tough one because when I had to stop, I did stop drinking when I was pregnant as well. And I must admit after that, I didn’t fancy drinking at all because I just thought I have to get up during the night to feed my kid and I can’t do that.

because it sometimes makes… do not recommend drinking at all unless moderation but then I did find though that alcohol did make me that bit more tired and so I knew that if I was then flaring it wouldn’t take the pain away at all but it would just help me sleep that little bit better.

Katy: Yeah, because there are, I mean, some people would, my dad’s always said if you’ve got a cold, have like some whiskey. Because that, yeah, but I mean, I think really, if you’re thinking scientifically, that’s probably a load of rubbish. But mentally, it sometimes feels like it works.

Debbie: Yeah, hot toddy, that’s… Yep. Yeah, because I think it could just relax you that little bit more sometimes and alcohol does relax sometimes it doesn’t it does the opposite but again it’s very personal and what’s right for you isn’t right for me so

Katy: Yeah, well, that’s why, so at home, that’s why I have CBT drinks. it gives you that kind of relaxant, but without the alcohol. I’m sure in a few years time, there’ll be problems with that as well that come out.

Debbie: Yeah, probably who knows, but it’s again, I just think I’m glad we’ve spoken about this because it’s good to know what how you feel is how I sometimes feel as well and you have to be very careful I think with the medications that you’re on and just being very honest and open if you are going to have say a blood test and you have been drinking the night before just let your consultant just be aware liver impact may be slightly different and it could well be normal but then you might have to go and have a repeat blood test as well. Obviously this is again, why we’re talking about alcohol today is living with inflammatory arthritis. It’s not just living with the disease. It’s living with the whole aspects of society and actually how that impacts on our disease and how we live, but we want to try and live a normal life, whatever that is. But it’s always having these decisions day in, day out in what’s good for you, what’s not good for you, how are you feeling? Do you think that you could go out, you know, if you wanted to go out? That’s another decision straight away that you have to make. Are you in the right frame of mind? How are your joints feeling? Can you go out? And then what do you wear as well,

Katy:  Yeah.

Debbie: So yeah, it is just having all of that involved in our lives with inflammatory arthritis.

Katy: Yeah. No. It’s a lot.

Debbie: So I do hope it really is. Well, we’ve done 29 episodes of it so far. So still a lot more to come. But thank you so much for listening. I hope there’s something that has resonated there. And if you’ve got any hints and tips, please put them on social media for us. We would love to hear your relationship with alcohol and you know as a parent as well would you tell your children about it? How do you tell your children?

But don’t forget there is our survey going out and we’ve had amazing feedback so far and I know people do want to hear more from our guests. So, we’ll be getting a lot more guests on the podcast and hearing more from ourselves as well just the daily realities of what we go through. And you can also now watch the episodes on YouTube. So, you can subscribe to our channel, it will be in the show notes, and you can get to watch the episodes as well. Don’t forget we’re also on social media. We are on Facebook, Blue Sky, Instagram and LinkedIn. Please do like, comment and follow and please rate the podcast wherever you get the podcast from. Until next week, it’s goodbye.

Katy: Goodbye.

In this episode of Inflammatory!, Debbie and Katy dive into an honest conversation about alcohol and its impact on life with inflammatory arthritis (IA). From social pressures to medication side effects, cultural habits to personal choices, they explore how drinking affects their health, fatigue, and flare-ups and how difficult it can be to balance self-discipline with wanting a “normal” social life. They also reflect on conversations with their children about alcohol, the changing attitudes among younger generations, and practical realities like what to wear, how late to stay out, and the fatigue that comes the next day.

What You’ll Hear in This Episode:

• Katy’s love for cardio tennis and how sport fits into IA life
• Debbie’s experience with boxercise as a mental health boost
• How alcohol interacts with disease modifying antirheumatic drugs (DMARDs) medications and blood tests
• Differences in drinking culture between the UK and Europe
• Honest reflections on binge drinking, FOMO, and self-discipline
• Parenting with IA: open conversations about alcohol with children and teens
• The real impact of drinking on joints, fatigue, and flare days
• Why choosing to drink (or not) is deeply personal and always evolving

Join the Conversation:
How does alcohol affect your IA symptoms, flares, or fatigue? Do you drink socially, at home, or not at all? We’d love to hear your experience, share your tips, thoughts, or stories with us on social media or by completing our survey.

Watch & Connect:

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Disclaimer: Debbie and Katy are not medical professionals. They share personal experiences of living with IA to build connection and community. The podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice. We talk about our personal health journeys and the podcast is not intended to provide professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. We are not medical professionals and in no way claim to be medically trained. The podcast does not take responsibility for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of the podcast. The podcast does not assume responsibility for the accuracy of third-party content.

For more information, head to https://inflammatoryarthritis.org/