Episode 65 Surviving Summer with IA

We are back and catch up after a long summer break, covering flare‑ups, heatwaves, medication changes, travel worries, and the realities of navigating adult rheumatology care. We share our personal stories about symptom management, the chaos of hot weather, tube journeys, nutrition experiments, and the challenges of everyday tasks when joints misbehave. We also tease upcoming episodes featuring Dr Raj (Axial SpA), English Channel swimmer Luke Belfield, and experts on Raynaud’s, hypermobility, PMRGCA, GCA, nutrition, and more. Plus, news on new peer‑support groups, online events, and the upcoming listener survey.

Key Topics

• Summer health challenges, flares, heat sensitivity and symptom changes
• Medication routines, dose changes, delays in care, and navigating NHS systems
• Transitioning from paediatric to adult rheumatology care
• Travel planning with IA and medication limitations
• Stories from the community, including people coming off medication and flaring
• Heatwaves, humidity, and the joy (or horror) of public transport
• Upcoming guest episodes: Axial SpA, juvenile idiopathic arthritis, endurance swimming
• Raynaud’s, hypermobility, PMRGCA, GCA why they matter and what’s coming
• Nutrition, food diaries, portion control, and realistic lifestyle tweaks
• Everyday challenges: brushing teeth, gripping tools, managing fatigue
• IAUK updates: peer support groups, newsletter, social media, YouTube episodes, upcoming survey

Keywords

inflammatory arthritis, axial spondyloarthritis, juvenile idiopathic arthritis, medication flare, summer heat symptoms, NHS, care transition, adult clinic, travel health, Raynaud’s, hypermobility, PMRGCA giant cell arteritis, nutrition, portion control, lifestyle management, chronic illness, community support, IAUK

Resources Mentioned

• Peer Support Group (Birmingham & Dudley) – see inflammatoryarthritis.org  
• IAUK Newsletter – sign up at inflammatoryarthritis.org
• IAUK Social Media – Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, BlueSky, YouTube
• Upcoming Episodes – Dr Raj (Axial SpA), Luke Belfield (English Channel swim), Raynaud’s specialist, Fibromyalgia UK, Hypermobility experts, PMRGCA/GCA discussions, nutrition specialist

Connect With Us

Stay part of the IAUK community, follow, subscribe, and join the conversation. Watch full episodes on YouTube or listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sign up for the newsletter for event updates, new resources, and the upcoming listener survey.

Disclaimer: Debbie and Katy are not medical professionals. They share personal experiences of living with IA to build connection and community. The podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice. We talk about our personal health journeys, and the podcast is not intended to provide professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. We are not medical professionals and in no way claim to be medically trained. The podcast does not take responsibility for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of the podcast. The podcast does not assume responsibility for the accuracy of third-party content. For more information, head to https://inflammatoryarthritis.org/

Debbie: Hello and welcome to Inflammatory with Debbie.

Katy: And Katy

Debbie: How are you, Katy? It’s been a long summer.

Katy: It has. I mean it I think the summer’s gone incredibly quick this year. I mean, six and a half weeks since we last had an episode. It’d be about seven or eight weeks by the time this goes out, won’t it?

Debbie: Yes, I must admit it has been a while. My husband did actually ask me when’s the next one coming out. we’ve done some recordings over the summer, but we did have a break.

Katy: Yes, and does he not hear you enough?

Debbie: But he can probably just turn me off in the car though when he listens, so yeah, he probably misses that.

Katy: Yeah, yeah.

Debbie: But how was your summer? How was your holiday?

Katy: It was really, really good. Yeah, it was lovely. It feels like about three thousand years ago now. But no, we had a great time, thank you. And how was your break at home doing things house?

Debbie: At the beginning of the summer, I wasn’t very well. And with the heat that just seemed to exaggerate everything. I was so hot, I just couldn’t get cool at all. I tried all the tips, tried flannels, fans, ice cubes, everything and I just couldn’t get cool. Trying to then sit and do some sort of stuff for the charities. It just couldn’t happen. So I did have to have like at least a week off just because I so unwell. And my hands just swelled so much as well, my elbows. Guess what? I’m still waiting for my joint injection. That has still not come through.

Katy: I mean how many how many months? Have you called anybody yet? Okay.

Debbie: I did, but they, can’t remember what they said. I think they were going to put me through to the right department. And then I somehow got cut off. So, and I kind of then gave up, it’s been nearly six months now, actually. I’ve been waiting, which is not great at all. And I was actually thinking though, when we had, I can’t remember which episode it was where we had a question coming about, how do you remember to take your medications? Well, actually, now my joints tell me when I need my medications. Even though I take them only weekly, the day before they get very sore.

Katy: Yeah. Yeah, because I’ve recently lowered a dose of one of my DMARDS and then I’ve noticed I mean it’s something I’d I found a letter and I realized I was supposed to have done this about a year ago.

Debbie: But they get lost though, don’t they?

Katy: I don’t know, I’d had a conversation with the nurse about it, and then I think it just went from my brain. And then I found an old appointment letter, or you know, the letters that go to your GP, and it had said for one of my tablets, I needed to cut it down to just one tablet a day. And then after a month, if everything seems okay, to then cut it down to half a tablet a day and then keep doing it to potentially then come off one of the medications, completely forgotten about this. I’ve been doing it, but not in the months. I want to feel a bit more comfortable. So I’ve just been through the summer taking one a day. And then if I feel okay in a couple of weeks, I’ll probably drop that down to half a tablet a day. So, I inject every other week on a Saturday and on the Friday, I do start to just a little, a little niggle. And I think I mentioned to you actually the other week, so me and Debbie have met twice in person over the summer. Quite exciting. there was

Debbie: It’s been great!

Katy: There’s a lady on Instagram that I follow and she’s in the US and she’s been traveling she came off all of her medications while she was traveling because of the sort of difficulties. Obviously, those this is someone I follow on Instagram. This is just anecdotal, essentially. And then after four months, all her pain, all her swelling has come back. She’s been talking about being medication free quite a lot. through the time, but then there is a period of time where those medications stay in your body and carry on supporting you. It’s for some people, not everybody, it’s then when it they s that when they stop working that then your symptoms all come back

Debbie: I’m on a research group and actually it is around 50 % will flare within six months of coming off. So, we know, but we don’t know why that happened to 50 % and not everyone goes into remission afterwards. So, there is research going on, but that must be harsh. Going traveling, because my daughter’s going to go traveling and she’s had to have a joint injection. She’s got to have an MRI on another joint as well. And I’m just hoping that she doesn’t need to go back on medication. But now she’s being transferred to adult clinic now from where she was. There was, she was transitioned to young adult and now to me, she’s, she’s, still a young adult. She’s 19.

Katy: Yeah.

Debbie: But yes, yeah.

Katy: gosh, yeah. I would have thought like twenty one would be the transition.

Debbie: I would have thought more like 25 for me that’s still a young adult. I know she’s moving to adult care now and that’s quite scary because the care it just isn’t the same. They can’t have all the doctors and nurses that you have for the paediatric side. So yes, I think that that’s slightly in the back of my mind worrying for her because she’s going to go traveling in January and just making sure that she’s stable now. And if anything does happen, we can sort it before she goes, but she can’t go back on the medications because she can’t carry a fridge with her.

Katy: Yeah, yeah. yeah. And this this lady who I follow, she was talking about because obviously in the States you have to pay for your care through insurance or just pay, because she’s travelling and she’s not earning, she hasn’t got any medical insurance. So it’s such a Yeah, yeah.

Debbie: It’s a double whammy really, isn’t it? It’s awful. Yes, we slate the NHS, but we are both so, so grateful for it though.

Katy: That’s what I was about to say. We moan quite a lot. Yeah. Yeah.

Debbie: her team have been fantastic and hopefully they will be. I’ll keep everyone informed of how that goes because I think it’s a worry for every parent what, is the care going to look like? and, know, and as you said, Katy, when people do come off medications, will they flare? You know, no.

Katy: And you don’t know, do you? And it’s like ’cause I’ve tried lowering the dose of this medication previously and I didn’t flare, but I just started to get some of the pain back. So I just decided, No, I’ll keep the dose the same. So I’m just trying it again and I mean, I’ll see how we go.

Debbie: Yeah, again, it’s the trial and error, isn’t it really? It’s the unknown. But I think you have to be in the right head space to try it though. Because otherwise, if you do, you don’t want to, you know, spiral because that can easily happen. something that we have to talk about, which we have done is mental health side of it, because you know, medication is just one side of the whole the whole treatment

Katy: Yes.

Debbie: I’m still trying to think of a new word apart from manage it. I come up with one at some point. But yeah, but how did you find the heat though over the summer? Because it was very hot.

Katy: So, I do like the heat. and I don’t really get many sort of changes in my symptoms because actually we’re about to come into autumn winter, aren’t we? And that Yeah. Cause it’s raining currently raining, but it’s still quite warm today. Yeah.

Debbie: Well, it’s meant to be very hot this weekend though before proper autumn hits. It’s really warm. Yeah.

Katy: I’ve actually had to roll my trousers up under the desk.

Debbie: Ha ha!

Katy: makeshift shorts. I should have put shorts on this morning, but it looked miserable. I do like the heat. I’m not gonna lie. And look and I experience more problems through the weather changing to cold or wet than I do to the heat. But I know everybody’s different and you experience it differently to me, don’t you, Debbie?

Debbie: I do, when it got really hot, my joints just couldn’t stand it at all. They were just really, I could just see them literally just swelling up in front of me. Yeah, so it wasn’t too great. And the pain wasn’t unbearable, put it that way. I just know that my body just doesn’t like that kind of, but it was for me really hot. I like you, I do like the heat, but that’s when I go abroad because it’s set up for the heat. You have the air con. You have, the swimming pools. It’s just, what you’re there for. And here we, you know, just having to close all your curtains and your windows shut. But then you’re not getting the vitamin D, you’re not getting the sunlight. And so then my body clock goes a bit weird because it’s like, you’ve been in the dark all day, but at night you’re opening the curtain. So yes, it’s just all a bit. Yeah. So it’s just all a bit weird, but yes, but now it’s.

Katy: What is doing it what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and obviously there was a hose pipe ban as well, so you couldn’t get paddling pool

Debbie: But I actually went into London yesterday. I had a couple of meetings in London yesterday and actually forgot how hot the tube is. Cause I’m on the Met line and the Met line is airconned, but others are not. And it was so…People were standing there with fans I forgot what that’s like. That’s horrendous.

Katy: Yeah, I’m lucky I don’t have to get the tube to work. I just get an overground and walk. but then in winter when it’s raining and the wind’s gushing over London Bridge, I might have to get the tube. but I don’t want to ’cause it’s the northern line and I hate the northern line.

Debbie: Yeah, it is. That’s what I was on and it was just so hot. So it’s just the humidity as well.

Katy: It’s stuffy and the smelly people. I’m at the height of armpits, so if you’re standing, I just have somebody’s armpit in my face.

Debbie: Lovely image of that, Katy. Thank you so much for sharing.

Katy: Yeah. So you know you know who’s put their deodorant on that day?

Debbie: Yes, you do. Over the summer, we did record some episodes with some amazing people. They were absolutely fantastic. We’ve got Dr. Raj who lives with axial spondyloarthritis, and he was diagnosed when he was about 11-ish, I think he had symptoms. And he’s actually now gone on to be a consultant, and he looks after people with Axial SpA which is fantastic.

Katy: No, I think it’s amazing that he’s truly turned like a negative into a positive and it’s kind of driven his career. So, it’s so interesting actually. His story and his insight into not just the sort of physical side but nutritional side, I think it’s great and all the research that he’s involved with.

Debbie: Yes. And the sports as well, you know, the movement side as well.

Katy: Yes. Yeah.

Debbie: yes, we won’t do too many spoilers, but he was absolutely fantastic and fascinating interview. And what happened when his mum gave him too much turmeric is quite amusing.

Katy: Yes, you’ll have to listen in the next couple of weeks to find out.

Debbie: you will. And we also recorded with Luke Belfield, who has literally just in the last, well it’s September now, but in July, he swam the English channel.

Katy: I know it’s incredible. I mean I can’t ’cause so I went to Littlehampton and I went in the in the sea and I can say it’s not that pleasant.

Debbie: I don’t do the English seas at all. Because they’re too cold for me, my body can’t cope with that cold. Yeah.

Katy: Hmm. Well, no, that’s what I mean. It’s so cold. So then to swim for the length of time that he did, I mean, that is such a test of endurance, mental strength, everything. And you can’t and anyway, I won’t again won’t spoil it, you’ll need to listen, but really incredible.

Debbie: Yeah, and some of the some of the obstacles he had to go through as well.

Katy: Yeah.

Debbie: But yeah, and he lives with juvenile idiopathic arthritis like I do. So yeah, absolutely fascinating. And again, he’s turning, a negative diagnosis into something positive. but I not everyone can do that, you know, with your own.

Katy: No, I mean I couldn’t do I’m rubbish at swimming.

Debbie: I love swimming. I really, really do love swimming. But the thing is though, I get quite competitive with myself and when my elbows are bad and like even doing front crawl, that kind of hurts it. So then I do breaststroke and that makes it even worse. And I have to have my head in the water and sometimes with my eyes on the verge of flaring, I can’t wear goggles. yes, quite a few,

Katy: Lots of challenges, yeah.

Debbie: yes, but we’ve been planning the next pods for the autumn and winter as well. we’ve got amazing collaborations coming up. We’ve got someone coming on talking about Raynard’s. because we know that quite a few people living with inflammatory arthritis will have that as well. actually, but what does it mean? What’s the treatment side? So we have a healthcare professional coming along and talking all about Raynaud’s with us, because again, I don’t think it’s really spoken about much.

Katy: No, I don’t think it is because I do occasionally have symptoms of it. and my sister’s always had it and I’ve got a few friends that have it as well. So, but obviously there’s different severities. So, you know,

Debbie: Yes.

Katy: I’m exceedingly mild.

Debbie: Yes, because you think it’s more down to the winter where your fingers go really cold, but it can also happen when you go, say, down the freezer aisle of a supermarket and stuff.

Katy: For me, it mostly happens in winter, and only when it is extremely cold, so my symptoms are very mild. But I know some people can experience it after swimming, for example, when they get out of the pool and feel that sudden change in temperature.

Debbie: And people don’t think, realise that there is treatment for it as well. So, we’ll be discussing that in a lot more detail and signposting to resources and we’re going to have people coming on from fibromyalgia UK, hypermobility, but that’s actually been in the news recently. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, hypermobility.

Katy: I haven’t no.

Debbie: Yeah, there’s actually something even on the BBC website about, is it just more like a bendy disease? I think that’s what people think of it as but there’s yeah.

Katy: yeah, but it’s definitely a lot more. There’s a lot more to it.

Debbie: There is so much more, and I’ve even seen it on TikTok as well. So, I think it’s again, it’s something that hasn’t really been talked about, but I know quite a few people who have that and their children were diagnosed with it. And then they were like, well, that’s it. We, you know, there’s again, nothing more we can do, but actually, you there is. And so we’ll have people coming on talking about that as well.

Katy: it’s linked to a lot of things as well. So it’s quite interesting.

Debbie: Also PMRGCA,

Katy: Polymyalgia rheumatica.

Debbie: and giant cell arteritis. But your dad suffers with that, doesn’t he, Katy?

Katy: Yes, he does. Yeah, but I he’s very well controlled now. I’m not sure actually if he’s still on steroids for it, but he had steroids to sort of treat it originally.

Debbie: Yeah, I think that is the main treatment. But again, we’ll have people coming on talking about that And other, comorbidities that we do live with. we don’t have enough weeks in the year at the moment. So we’re going to be starting to plan for, I can’t wait, 2027. Wow, that’s fantastic.

Katy: Yeah, and we’re gonna have someone on talking about nutrition. I mean, there’s so much going on and so much to come.

Debbie: Yes, because you did a food diary over the summer as well, didn’t you? How did you find that?

Katy: Well actually really scary about how much I was eating, especially because sometimes you don’t sometimes you don’t realise.

Debbie: No, you don’t.

Katy: So I did actually do it the one of the weekends. I was on holiday and then mixed it up. I didn’t actually do it four days in a row, like was asked. I hope he isn’t listening. I actually decided to pick some of my worst days because then I thought then that gives you a good picture of when you’re doing things really wrong.

Debbie: Yeah, yeah.

Katy: So then it was it was really interesting actually, because it is it’s frustrating because quite often it’s things you already know, but you’re not doing it. So, he’s agreed, I’m gonna keep him updated of how I get on with some of the changes he’s suggested. So, it’s all the usual stuff of making sure your plates like half full of veggies and thinking about your portion size of carbs, your portion size of protein. So, it’s all it’s all really around sort of portion control, but also linking it because I am only short, so I shouldn’t be eating the same amount as a six-foot man. Really? Yeah.

Debbie: No, but it is hard when you are doing it for a family though, because also you have to.

Katy: It is. It’s also as well sometimes you don’t know how much you are eating because if you’re bulk cooking something, you just chuck it on the plate.

Debbie: Yeah. Yeah.

Katy: So, it’s also kind of trying to look at the plate in front of you and thinking

Debbie: Yeah.

Katy: About how you portion it out.

Debbie: Yeah. But, but like when I do like a roast dinner though, I just put everything on the table because I don’t want to dish up for everyone. And I don’t know because as it says then in front of you, so that all I could do with another roast potato or a bit more meat or something. And I never generally go for, I sometimes go for more veg, but, but yeah, as it’s right in front of you, it’s just like, not? And it is, yeah, it’s hard. Yes.

Katy: Yeah, and it’s like I love a buffet. I love I love a mix. So, you know, so it’s you know, it’s quite useful. And sometimes you need somebody else to tell you what you can improve to then make that change. I’m not  sure certain I’m gonna make huge changes, but it’s just, you know, little changes of different things. And it’s sometimes, you know, breakfast sometimes I am just lazy and I’ll have some toast because it’s just easy. But actually I am I would be better having porridge, yoghurt, and maybe some fruit.

Debbie: Yes, but then also you need to make sure the fruit’s there because I don’t know about you but mine’s just been going off so quickly over the summer. jeez. Yeah.

Katy: Bananas were a total nightmare. A total nightmare. They literally you buy them and within about two days they’ve all gone brown. So, I’ve been buying green bananas. My son’s become quite addicted to banana milkshake over the summer. So I was thinking, well, at least he’s getting some fruit. Let’s not worry about the other bits.

Debbie: Well, the thing is that he’s also growing and it’s nice and cool. So, you know, for me that would be perfect.

Katy: Yes. Yeah.

Debbie: I do a smoothie. So I actually have frozen fruit, which I use, sometimes I just get lazy and just thinking, let’s have a cup of tea.

Katy: Can’t be bothered. Yeah it’s just those sometimes those little switches. it’s also like if I’m in the office, I’ll have tons of coffee and you don’t actually think about, especially if you’re getting like a flat white, how many calories and things there are in milk. You know, and then all these little things add up.

Debbie: Yeah, years ago when I again had my dietitian who was just horrendous, but it did scare me and I did do everything that she asked. And I remember when I went back to her, she was like, how did you do it? was like, well, I just did everything you said. And she goes, you’re the first one who’s ever done that. And I was like, but you’re really scary. I didn’t want to cross her at all.

Katy: Yeah. I think a lot of people will say they’re doing the things. It’s a bit like I was talking last night to some friends about hygienists. So, I played tennis last night and there was one of the guys who’s a hygienist and I said, my god, you’re scary because I’ve always found the hygienist really scary.

Debbie: I’m actually seeing mine in a few weeks. But again, that’s because also when my hands are so bad, trying to get how you floss and that,

Katy: Yeah, well brushing your teeth can be a challenge.

Debbie: yes, that really can. think actually a few times my husband has actually had to brush my teeth for me, which is just weird. And then there are things that you can use, like the longer things and that bit, then they don’t seem to fully understand that I can’t, when my hands are so, I can’t grab anything.

Katy: You can’t grip them. Yeah.

Debbie: And they’re so tiny and then trying to get them into your teeth. It’s just, yeah, so I do, my hygienist is probably going to tell me off, but it’s just like, well, you know, I haven’t been well.

Katy: I love having my teeth cleaned by them because the w when you come out it all just feels lovely. Then they always say, well it should feel like this all the time. Well it doesn’t. Sorry.

Debbie: It doesn’t know. So yes, I’ve kind of lost where we’ve gone with all of this, the way. yeah, no, sorry, Yes.

Katy: I’ve just gone completely off track.

Debbie: Yeah. But getting back to milk though. Yeah. So when I did, have a dietician. I changed to skimmed milk because I didn’t realise again, the calories in it. But now I can’t drink anything that’s not skimmed milk. But in my tea, I now have oat milk with no sugars. And I actually find weirdly that fills me up more. So I don’t drink as many cups of tea. And I find yeah, anything like more semi-skimmed that just tastes like cream. cannot, I can’t stand it at all. Yeah.

Katy: really?

Debbie: it’s then realizing that your taste buds can change over time as well.

Katy: No, they can definitely. ‘Cause I used to have four sugars in my tea when I was like a late teenager. And I can’t imagine. I don’t have any sugar. I can’t imagine having sugar in tea now. I just think it’s vile.

Debbie: No. Yeah, I must admit we’ve had, we’ve got builders in at the moment and yeah, having to do them teas, they’re like ones like, yeah, tea with two sugars. Two? And yeah, and one has one sugar. Thankfully.

Katy: Yeah, I mean imagine having four. Imagine because I used to have Wheatabix as a kid. Cov like and like your pair your parents did give you Wheatabix because it’s got less sugar than like frosted whatever they’re called, frosties. And I would get I would just like there’d be a whole layer of sugar on top. So I mean, at least I don’t do that anymore.

Debbie: The things we do. But then also, its again, cereals, they were not generally good for us because they have so much sugar in them and the health bars, like the nutrition bars, they’re not good at all.

Katy: Yeah. yeah, they’re not yeah. Well it’s anything that’s overly processed as well. so

Debbie: Yes, yeah.

Katy: Actually, in at work we’ve had through the summer, we’ve had someone coming in doing sort of nutritional webinars, which has been quite interesting. But again, it’s a lot of the stuff, it’s stuff you’ve heard a thousand times before. And I guess it’s always good to have a reminder and then you take what you want from it and make the changes you want to make. Because I do still think eating is for enjoyment, not just health. You know, you’ve got to have a balance. I mean, I’m not saying I’ve sixty-five  McDonald’s every day, but

Debbie: Yeah, I can’t remember the last time I had a McDonald’s. Yeah. And obviously there are other takeouts available. but there’s also the price has gone up so much.

Katy: Mm, I always if my son quite enjoys a happy meal once in a while and I’ll generally get a happy meal as well. Because then at least you’re having less of the rubbish. You’re still having the rubbish, but it

Debbie: That’s very true.

Katy: it’s less of it. I I actually don’t like that sort of stuff, but occasionally I’ll go, okay, I’ll get one.

Debbie: Think in moderation occasionally, you know,

Katy: Yeah. Yeah.

Debbie: Why not? Because again, we’re human, otherwise we’ll be robots

Katy: Some people can do that. I commend them and I think it’s amazing, but I can’t. Or I don’t want I actually well I don’t want to. I think that’s more the point.

Debbie: Yeah, I must admit it was hard when I really had to completely change my lifestyle and my eating habits. And I generally have stuck to it. But I just found after having kids and just I just needed energy because my sugar levels dropped so much. I just need that quick thing just to keep me going. And I found snacks the hardest thing because again, fruit as much as yes, you should eat fruit. I found that some of the fruit had too much sugar in it. So that affected my blood sugars. So it is a hard balance. It really is. I think, know, but we do need to enjoy life. Otherwise, would be too restrictive and we don’t want to be that.

Katy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There are pros and cons in everything.

Debbie: Completely. So yes, but it’s been great catching up, Katy We are having some actual some online events coming up soon as well. If you are in Birmingham and in the Dudley area, there is a new peer support group. It’s a kind of a pilot. We’re trying it out with the hospital in that area to see what works, whether people want it or not. It will be in our show notes. And again, it will be in our newsletter as well. So please do sign up to our newsletter at inflammatoryarthritis.org. All the details on how to register and to book online will be on that. Please do sign up to our social media. We are on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Blue Sky and YouTube. Don’t forget, you can actually watch these episodes on YouTube. we found that actually people prefer listening just the audio side on Spotify. So, but the video is on YouTube. So, head along, subscribe and download all the episodes on there. I think we’ve done so much already over the summer, Katy. We have so much coming up and just not enough weeks I don’t think left in the year.

Katy: No, no. I mean it’s going too quickly. We’ll

Debbie: I know.

Katy: be two years in January. Two years old in Jan

Debbie: So next year will be our third year of doing podcasts, which is just unbelievable. And yeah, and more people are finding us and really,

Katy: Yeah.

Debbie: Really enjoying it as well. And we will be having a survey coming out soon as well. So again, all the details would then be on those show notes, but we want to know whether, you’re enjoying what we’re saying, what else you’d want to hear from any other topics or anything that we can discuss or get healthcare professionals on or other people with experience as well. So please do let us know. But again, we’ll let you know when that is out. So, until next week, Katy, it’s saying goodbye.

Katy: Goodbye.