Episode 71 Why Don’t You Believe Us?

In this packed episode, Debbie and Katy discuss the frustration of not always being believed when living with an invisible condition and ask whether the true burden of inflammatory arthritis, particularly fatigue and the energy required to fight chronic inflammation, can ever be properly quantified. As always, the conversation is balanced with humour, including a light-hearted debate about the economic impact of “man flu”.

They reflect on Simon Stones’ recent episode around medication side effects, patient advocacy, and the importance of making the most of good days. This ties into World Arthritis Day’s theme of Achieving Your Dreams, and a diagnosis may change your path, but it does not have to stop you achieving your goals.

Key topics:

• Invisible illness and not being believed
• Flu and COVID vaccinations
• Seasonal changes and symptom management
• Healthcare language and patient experience
• Patient advocacy and raising awareness
• Reflections on Simon’s story
• Medication side effects and delayed diagnosis
• Living well, pacing and managing flares
• Resilience and achieving your dreams
• Supporting Inflammatory Arthritis UK through EasyFundraising

Key words: Inflammatory arthritis, rheumatoid arthritis, juvenile idiopathic arthritis, axial spondyloarthritis, invisible illness, chronic illness, flu vaccine, COVID vaccine, vaccinations, patient advocacy, patient participation groups, delayed diagnosis, healthcare communication, DMARDs, medication side effects, fatigue, chronic pain, flares, resilience, self-advocacy, research, World Arthritis Day, achieving your dreams, wellbeing, mental health, living well with arthritis.

Quotes:

“Looking well doesn’t mean you’re well.”

“If a medication isn’t working for you, it doesn’t mean you’ve failed. It means the treatment isn’t right for you.”

“You can do everything right and still flare. Sometimes we’re trying to control the uncontrollable.”

“Why would we lie about being ill? We just want to be healthy.”

Resources:

Inflammatory Arthritis UK: inflammatoryarthritis.org

EasyFundraising: easyfundraising.org.uk

NHS Vaccination Information: nhs.uk/vaccinations/

Follow Inflammatory Arthritis on social media: Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Bluesky, YouTube

Disclaimer: Debbie and Katy are not medical professionals. They share personal experiences of living with IA to build connection and community. The podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice. We talk about our personal health journeys, and the podcast is not intended to provide professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. We are not medical professionals and in no way claim to be medically trained. The podcast does not take responsibility for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of the podcast. The podcast does not assume responsibility for the accuracy of third-party content. For more information, head to https://inflammatoryarthritis.org/

Debbie: Hello and welcome to Inflammatory! with Debbie.

Katy: And Katy

Debbie: Before we get into the episode, I just want to do a quick plug. It’s just a reminder that this podcast is hosted and produced by Inflammatory Arthritis UK. We are a small charity and we’re still new. I don’t know how long we can say we’re new because we’re not two years old yet. I don’t know what the cutoff is. Do you know, Katy?

Katy: No idea but I always think up to three years you’re pretty the new kids on the block.

Debbie: I like that. Yeah, we’re still the new kids on the block. And an easy way for us to get donations is through Easy Fundraising. It’s EasyFundraising.org.uk. It doesn’t cost you anything to sign up. And when you shop online, and now even if you’re in store, it’s the retailers that donate, not you. So, it doesn’t cost you anything, and it’s the retailers that donate to us. And with Black Friday coming up, and I don’t really want to mention the C word, not that C word, Katy the other C word, the seasonal C word. It can really make a difference to us. We’re all volunteers and every penny goes directly to our cause. So please do sign up. But Katy how are you and how’s your wrists? Because they were flaring a little bit last time.

Katy: They were yeah, and actually they’re way better, which is quite bizarre because the temperatures really dropped this week.

Debbie: I know, it really has, it’s cold.

Katy: Like I’m in knitwear.

Debbie: Yes, it looks very nice.

Katy: Like this week it just suddenly I was I went to an event on Wednesdays, we’re recording on Friday, and I didn’t wear a coat, came out in the evening from this event absolutely frozen. Like properly shivering. I was in a long sleeve, quite long dress. and it had been previously it’s been like twenty-five degrees and then suddenly it’s shot down to fifteen. So, it’s that drop like a ten-degree drop has really, really kind of got me.

Debbie: Yeah, no, I feel the same and people can probably hear I have a stinking cold.

Katy: Yes, I was about to say, you’re not well.

Debbie: I’ve it for, I think a week really. can’t seem to shift it. And it’s just at night and you know when you sort of roll over and your nose is running and then it’s just that disturbing in your sleep and then the fatigue the next day. my gosh. It’s not great. But you’ve had your flu jab though, haven’t you? Did you get any side effects?

Katy: I have, yes. Yeah, had that. I get a really slightly achy arm where they put it in. But no, I never get side effects from the flu jab, but I always take like a paracetamol just afterwards. just to mitigate the side effects.

Debbie: that’s a good idea,

Katy: Yeah, I played tennis like that evening after I had it. and I was fine. And you but you’ve not been offered it yet, have you?

Debbie: No, I was going to ask how do you get a text message? Do you get something from your doctors to say that you’re eligible?

Katy: So it comes through the NHS app. so what my doctor’s surgery does is they just have one day, generally at the very start of October, and everyone can just book a time slot for that day and it’s in a church hall. And so they just kind of get through pretty much everybody in the surgery in that one day.

Debbie: That’s really good because yeah, my every year I can’t, this thing I forget how to register I think you can go on the NHS website, I think, and then you can probably go through there if you’re eligible because my husband gets notifications. I think he gets a text message from the doctor’s surgery, but I don’t. And he only gets, he’s only eligible because of me. So, he’s down as my carer.

Katy: Yeah.

Debbie: And so, he gets it and I don’t. And every time then I go through it, the doctors are like, so why are you eligible? And so, I have to go through it. And it’s like, can you put it on every year? I tell them to put it on their systems and they don’t.

Katy: That’s so frustrating because if you were in my area, if you missed that one day, it would like you can get it done obviously at the pharmacy and you could I don’t even know really if our doctor’s surgery do it in surgery. I guess they must but if you miss that one day, it’d then be quite I think it’d be quite a pain to try and find where and when to then get it done if you’re not on their list.

Debbie: Yeah, because what happens then if you’re away or you can’t do that day though? Surely, they must do other. Yeah. okay.

Katy: No idea because I’ve always done it on the day I’ve just yeah. So, I’ve never I don’t think I’ve ever missed it ever since sort of I don’t know what happened. So previously you did just go into the surgery. It’s only been in since post COVID that they’ve kind of taken this approach of just getting everybody into the church hall and then everyone pretty much getting done at once. And I told you, didn’t I? I’ve ended up signing up to a feedback, GP surgery sort of feedback group. I’ve forgotten the actual name of it, and I don’t know where I’ve put the leaflet.

Debbie: It’s alright, you sent me a photo, I can send it back to you.

Katy: Because I didn’t realise. every surgery now has to have a group of patients that kind of feedback in terms of the type of care that everybody wants. So yhey wanted as well to make sure that on this group so they meet quarterly and just kind of talk about issues in the area, and really just to improve the service of the GP surgery to make sure it’s meeting the needs of local residents. And every GP surgery should have one. So, I would encourage you because also it’s it’ll give me an opportunity to raise the profile of the charity amongst GPs and and

Debbie: But also the conditions as well, because again,

Katy: Yes, yeah.

Debbie: GPs are generally our first point of call when we have any symptoms. And I think especially with children, but also, you know, with AxSpA as well, we know that then that causes delays to diagnosis. So, anything that you could do to raise that awareness, fantastic. So yeah, well done.

Katy: Yeah, so I just think but I think everybody listening, if you’re in the UK, it is worthwhile. the lovely lady that approached me said it’s only sort of four, I actually can’t remember though if it’s in person or digital, but it’s only four times a year, quick sort of hour of your time. I’m sure you get some lovely teas and biscuits if it’s in person.

Debbie: Definitely worthwhile then.

Katy: Yeah, definitely worthwhile. But it’s also helping your local community. So there’s that that kind of whole piece.

Debbie: yeah, no, that’s fantastic. I’ll have a look when I go to my GP and see. Yeah, if I ever get my flu jab.

Katy: But I but my main reason really is thinking about raising the profile of the diseases and then obviously the charity.

Debbie: Yeah, completely because, every single guest that we’ve come on with, we’ve had on has sort of had, seems to have had a delay to their diagnosis. I think a few have been diagnosed very quickly. I remember Adam, he got diagnosed really quickly. And others, if you know people like the contacts that they had, like Charlie.

Katy: Yes. So, Charlie

Debbie: It was through his, girlfriend at the time. Yeah, and that’s how

Katy: yes. That’s right. Yeah.

Debbie: She they eventually then got his diagnosis, but again, a lot quicker than others. Also, maybe because they’re men as well. I’m not trying to be sexist here, but we do know that men are far more likely to be diagnosed quicker than women for actual spa. So, you know, there is that as well. But going back to your flu jab, though, did you then get offered the COVID one as well?

Katy: So yes, so I’ve had a text message for the COVID one. I haven’t I’ve only got that recently.

Debbie: Okay.

Katy: Like so there is always a bit of a kind of a month between in my area. I get the flu vaccine comes through the NHS app and then I get a text message about the COVID vaccine. But I haven’t it’s now in my area it’s generally in a pharmacy that you just book into.

Debbie: Okay. Because weirdly, my parents don’t live that far from you, and they get their flu and COVID exactly the same day. They have their same appointment.

Katy: Yeah, I mean they’re across the border though. I’m Greater London there, Surrey.

Debbie: Yeah. That’s true.

Katy: But it’s so strange how literally five minutes down the road and it is just so different.

Debbie: No, it it’s all different.

Katy: ‘Cause I just think when they’re doing the flu vaccine in the church hall, they could jab one arm with flu, jab the other with COVID.

Debbie: Yeah, generally what happens when I eventually get around to doing my flu and they’re like, you’re eligible for COVID, they go and get that out the fridge and then they do it straight away. Yes, they’re one in one arm, one in the other and that’s done.

Katy: But it will be the fridge, will be the complication because the church hall won’t have fridge a fridge that fits all of their vaccinations.

Debbie: Yes, that’s true.

Katy: I guess the logistics of what they do makes that not happen.

Debbie: Yeah, but then it’ll probably be eventually though, the COVID may, it might not actually need the fridge now. I don’t, I don’t actually know, but yeah. No.

Katy: Yeah, it depends which one you get given because you don’t have a choice, like there’s no choice. You just get given whatever that particular location has.

Debbie: Yeah.

Katy: There’s only one COVID vaccine that I don’t get side effects from and it doesn’t tend to get used that much at the moment.

Debbie: I know when I first had the COVID jab, did get, my joints went crazy. They were just, it was just like, what the hell is happening? What have you done to me? And like my immune system just attacked everything. And I think after that, it hasn’t been too bad though. But you kind of forget what it was like when they first came out, the different ones that there were and which one, it was always a conversation because I had nothing else talk about, but which one did you have? It’s like, my gosh, really? No one ever says that about anything else.

Katy: Well, I remember Yeah, ’cause my first one was at a big racecourse near me. You got in this massive queue. and you had like a half hour sort of time slot and you got in the queue at the racecourse. and then I mean

Debbie: Social distance to depart though, I assume.

Katy: Yes, yes, of course. And I can remember being interrogated like I was a spy as to why I was valid to get it. It was and it really put me off actually.

Debbie: It would do.

Katy: because they were like, well, why are you here? You don’t look like you should need one. And it was, well, I’ve been look, and having to take all the letters. I can remember taking a medicine box one time because every time I used to get quite anxious going to get them because I knew I was going to get interrogated. And, I still do. My local pharmacy, when I go to get a vaccination, she’s like, what are you doing here?

Debbie: That’s so rude. I know they might not mean it, but it does come across really rude.

Katy: I’m not that young anymore either. I’ve got wrinkles and grey hair.

Debbie: Yeah, my doctor told me I’m old, you know, I am now technically old. But that’s just bizarre though. Why would you… I think again, the word arthritis means I think we always have to kind of, feels like we have to defend what we’ve got all the time. And then, yeah, but we’re not…

Katy: Yeah. Well and sometimes they feel like a liar. I feel like a liar. And it’s like I do have a diagnosis, I promise.

Debbie: Why also, why would we lie about it? we just want to be like healthy and normal, whatever normal is, normal doesn’t exist. But we do just, and we want to be healthy, I think. And we have these conditions that, you know, that fluctuate, So, that really frustrates me, actually, especially people in healthcare as well, that’s…

Katy: Yeah, and I just remember sort of a lot of like I did get all my COVID vaccinations, but it did make me question whether to because of knowing that I was gonna be kind of basically accused of being a liar.

Debbie: I get it. And that’s really not right. That’s not on at all. So yeah, but again, it’s the language that gets used in health care, isn’t it as well. And again, I think we’ve come across that a lot in our podcasts as well. But it is and it’s just like, just think who you’re you know, you’re talking to quite vulnerable people, and you could have another diagnosis as well. They don’t know.

Katy: Yes,

Debbie: Just because you look, you know, you generally, you know, if you’re on YouTube and you’re watching us, we probably generally look okay. But there are things that can come.

Katy: I don’t know Debbie not to get

Debbie: Well, actually, if you’ve been on the tube recently, when they say if something doesn’t look right, it’s like, I probably don’t look right.

Katy: Yeah.

Debbie: Going back to, the language that gets used, yeah, they really need to think twice about the implications it can have, I think. And yeah, because you could also be having a really bad day mentally with it all. And if you were flaring, and then they’re like, well, there’s nothing wrong with you. That’s kind of what they’re sort of saying. And that’s so not right. The hidden diseases.

Katy: Yeah, and you don’t know what any individual is going through at any one time. So you’ve got to be really careful because you could trigger anything, you know, and you don’t know what mental health problems somebody could have that that sort of conversation could put them into a bit of a spiral.

Debbie: Yeah, completely. But we had an amazing episode come out just before World Arthritis Day, which was on the 12th of October. And we’ll get into more of that theme. But Simon’s episode, Katy what did you think about one?

Katy: Just brilliant. And I didn’t realise that it sort of got into all the health advocacy at such a young age, sort of I think it was eighteen, wasn’t it?

Debbie: Yes.

Katy: That he did and that he was actually authored on research at that that point, which I think is absolutely brilliant. Because I think I would have been petrified at that that age. I mean, at that age I didn’t have any form of inflammatory arthritis diagnosis, so I would never have been in that situation. But I just think it’s incredible that he’s always thrown himself sort of headfirst into opportunities.

Debbie: Yeah, again, this is what these diagnoses can give you. It is opening different doors to different opportunities. And I must admit, when Simon was first talking about his mum though, I was trying not to get emotional because that really hit home to me. And probably how she felt that, you know, she didn’t know whether she could have children, I felt exactly the same. And then would I put them past that on down to my children. it was interesting hearing it from his side and you know being that child and then helping his mum as well. So, it so much resonated. But then also what then really properly hit home is how bad he got with his medication, the first DMARD that he was on.

Katy: Yeah, that really surprised me because I and I it completely makes sense after he’s sort of talked through it because of how you feel afterwards. And then as a child, how I guess you emotionally can’t separate things.

Debbie: No.

Katy: Not that you always can as an adult either.

Debbie: No, it is very, very hard. I think, again, because I could see it from a parent’s side, because that’s exactly what my daughter went through. And you do forget your brain doesn’t want you to remember, but when he was talking about that, was just, this is exactly what my daughter went through. And because, you know, you have to take so many of these tablets as well. Trying to get them down them. And it is such a battle because you know that it’s good for them and trying to get that across to them. then I also know how nauseous and everything it made them because that’s exactly how I felt. So it’s like, why am I trying to do this to my daughter when I know exactly that she’s gonna feel rubbish? So that, yeah, that really did hit home. again, it is trying to…realize that if a medication isn’t working for you, it’s, and again, this comes back to language as well, because some doctors then say, you failed.

Katy: It’s failed, yeah.

Debbie: No, you just haven’t tolerated it, which is completely fair enough because not everyone does tolerate every single medication out there, which is again why we have different ones. But there are so many options now where you can go back to your healthcare professional to say, this isn’t working for me. What else can I take? And it’s just trying to make sure that people are aware of that as well and trying different medications because it is so hard. But then how he threw up in front of all his classmates, that typically we laugh.

Katy: You see, that did remind me I was in secondary school and I might have talked about this on a previous episode, maybe like a year or so ago. I ’cause I used to get sickness books all the time as a child and I do remember I was maybe year seven or year eight and we were practicing for some like choirs on the stage and I’d clearly got a sickness book and I threw up off the top of the stage, I mean not related to inflammatory arthritis obviously threw up over everybody’s bags that were at the bottom of the stage. it was disgusting. It but it slightly reminded me of that in my life. But if that’s a regular thing, then it’s it goes from not being so funny to being horrendous really if you’re regularly thrown up at school.

Debbie: Yeah, which is obviously why then he changed it to the weekend. But then it did ruin his weekend and it also ruined my daughter’s as well. Because as Simon said, a balance in life as well. And it’s like, when do you feel? Ill when you’re at school or do you kind of want to feel ill when you have that time at home just to kind of get over your week? Because obviously school, you know, is tough, working is tough as well.

Katy: They’re they’re tired, yeah.

Debbie: And so it is, but again, until you have that conversation with those healthcare professionals, as I think I’ve mentioned before, the nurse that could see how badly my daughter was with this. But then it’s hard as a parent when you’ve got your child there because you don’t really want to go through and talking about it with her sitting there because she doesn’t want it spoken about, which is completely fair enough. And so it was just trying to put things as a parent, read between the lines and what I’m trying to say here.

Katy: Yeah. And that that takes that’s a skill that paediatric nurses I guess really have to develop to sort of read between the lines of what the parent’s saying and actually maybe what that means in like a practical sense.

Debbie: Completely. So that’s then what happened. And she was amazing. And she phoned me and said, we’re going to change the medication. was like, thank you. So yeah, but you just need that conversation however you can have it. So yeah, but also what Simon was saying though about just living your life and not pacing because you thought that was brilliant.

Katy: I was really because I understand why we all talk about pacing and I do think pacing to a sense is very important. but I do also believe that if you feel like you can do something, don’t worry too like there’s always we all know there’s generally consequences. Just do it and worry about it afterwards.

Debbie: Completely. And how he explained it though is really fascinating because again, it made me really think as well that the amount of times I’ve had it in obviously like you now, you sit around at hospitals, doctors, all of that, and you do it, it does give you time to reflect because

Katy: No, it does.

Debbie: You’re in that environment anyway. And you know, you are there for your condition. So, I think it’s the only generally time that you focus on your condition because you’ve got to then talk to the consultant about it.

Katy: Yes. And you think about it whilst you’re wait like the hour the ninety minute wait you might have, although I do think that’s got better.

Debbie: Yes, I think for me as well, little bit. In one hospital to the other hospital, I can wait around for about four hours sometimes. But it does give you that time to reflect. And actually, if you are well, make the most of it. But trying to get that across to my family though, because even my husband will go, Debs, don’t overdo it. It’s like…I’m feeling well enough and I want to, don’t stop me. I’ve had something else, yeah,

Katy: Don’t kind of hold you back. Yeah.

Debbie: You know, I have this condition that does and I just don’t, but he means it in a really lovely way because he’ll probably think you’re gonna be so ill next week. Yeah, and I’ll have to do everything, so no.

Katy: And I’m good after Yeah, yeah.

Debbie: So, there could be that reason, but it is though, and it is just doing what you think is right for you as well.

Katy: Yeah, and everybody’s what’s right isn’t what’s right for me isn’t right for you. So it you know, we’ve got to take a bit of control well, it and it goes back a little bit to Luke and taking back control. So, I do think there is a lot in you know, there’s so much in life you can’t control. Like we can put loads of stuff in place to try and help ourselves not flare. However, quite often if a flare’s gonna come, it’s gonna come. Don’t regret yesterday not doing something when actually you know today you can’t. I don’t know, yeah. I think it’s try and live life without regret. Really hard.

Debbie: completely because it is hard, but it is that uncertainty because again, you can do everything right, can do every single guideline and evidence-based things out there. But as you say, you can still flare because we don’t know why we flare. And actually, it’s trying to control the uncontrollable, which we can’t. So, but you can control what you want to do. And actually if you want to do things, you know, just do it. But then also I think it’s goes into the mental health side of it all though, that knowing that even, okay, if I do flare, I’ve been, I’ve had flares before and I’ve got over it. And I think it’s just trying to get that mental side going to actually say, you are stronger than you think as well. And you can get through it.

Katy: Yeah, everybody, with these diseases are incredible. Just the fact that what without doing anything, what you’re dealing with on a day-to-day basis is more than what most people would deal with. And actually I saw this is completely not relevant, but I saw something about pregnancy and how pregnant, like the energy expenditure for a day of someone in pregnancy is like doing a marathon every day, or I mean, this is slightly probably slightly wrong stats. but I wonder if anyone’s looked at the energy expenditure to fight off inflammatory arthritis inflammation, what that would equate to. Because it was talking about the endurance of pregnancy. I think there must be something similar when you’re fighting off inflammation, your body is enduring a lot. I wonder, I really I’d love to know if anyone’s looking at that type of research.

Debbie: Yeah, if not, please do. But that’s fascinating. But then also this gets what Simon was talking about is research and how, as you say, how we got into research and everything. And it’s trying to make sure that the research impacts on us. You know, this is what research should be doing. It impacts the people living with these conditions’ day in and day out, and also their family and people that support us. So, I think that’s a really good one, though, because I suppose it also comes back into not defending ourselves, but actually trying to say, look, we’re dealing with this and in a way we can sort of then quantify it. And then people might understand more. Yeah.

Katy: Yeah, because it’s unquantifiable, isn’t it? Yeah, you can’t quantity it. It’s just like as a woman when you’re pregnant, you can’t quantify the fact of how tired and exhausted that makes you feel. But actually, in my opinion, the tiredness and exhaustion of inflammatory arthritis when you’re in a bad way is way worse than when I was pregnant.

Debbie: When I was pregnant I actually flared as well even though they say you don’t flare I did and that was just awful again

Katy: So everything went away for me. So yeah, different.

Debbie: Yeah, again, but then when I speak to researchers, they’re like, yeah, it does go away. It’s like it not for everyone. And they’re like, really?

Katy: No. I think it’s only fifty percent or something like that. It’s not it’s not as high as I think the narrative would expect you to believe.

Debbie: It’s exactly, it’s that narrative again, and then trying to get over to, not that I’m not slating healthcare professionals at all, they do an amazing, amazing job. But just because, you know, it could be that say 90 % of women, there is still that 10 % though, there’s still that small number that can flare, and I was one of them. So again, just believe me, that’s what happened when they get off, really? No, I’m just lying. I lie about everything.

Katy: Yeah, because that’s just what I do. Yeah.

Debbie: Yeah, it’s like, no, I really did. again, it’s just trying to change that narrative with it all. actually, we could quantify it, that would be a really good way for other people to understand what, as you say, what we go through every single day. And I think

Katy: Yeah. Yeah.

Debbie: Also, when you have, like I do now, I have a cold. And so, my body is trying to do so much anyway, trying to fight that and not trying to fight.

Katy: Yeah, and that’s hard.

Debbie: Because it is affecting my joints as well. So, I’m having like a double whammy with it all. And also, I’m very aware that when I get colds, I generally have chest infections. So, I’m having to not do too much, but I still have a dog to walk and that. I, but I also get costochondritis. I’ve mentioned this previous on other podcasts as well. It’s, know, inflammation in your ribs. And, but that’s kind of caused chest pains. And so you then have to be, is that, it that, is it a chest infection? Am I having a fever with it? It’s just like so many things that go off in your mind just because you have a cold. And again, if that’s quantifiable, that’d be great. But I think man flu is obviously, you know, they’re almost on their deathbeds, I think.

Katy: Yeah. I mean my husband my husband’s got man flu at the moment. I mean it’s the worst thing that could happen ever.

Debbie: We’ll never understand.

Katy: I will never understand because I don’t have a male body or male anatomy. So, they’re just made I mean, we are all made different,

Debbie: We are.

Katy: But yeah, man flu is the worst thing. I mean, I wonder how much it costs the world. in sick days, man flu. That’s a study I’d like to see. The economics of man flu. Just lost half the audience.

Debbie: Obviously, we are just having a joker because again, as most people have said, as Simon says, you need to have your humour, you’ve got to. Yeah, very much so. So

Katy: Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah.

Debbie: Yeah, we’ve covered so much this week. It’s been great.

Katy: We have.

Debbie: So yeah, so make sure people go and register if you’re eligible for your flu jab and see if you can get COVID one as well. Because I think we chatted actually just beforehand and COVID is doing its rounds again, but slightly different again, obviously it changes strains

Katy: Which is why it’s important, isn’t it? Just like the flu to get to get vaccinated.

Debbie: Yeah, because I’ve had flu in the past and I’ve had COVID and it’s been absolutely terrible. So make sure you sign up where you can for that, whether it’s on the NHS or speak to your doctor’s surgery as well. But also speak to your healthcare, team as well, your rheumatologist and see there’s anything that they can do to flag on other systems again, getting back to systems, not talking to each other. Anyway, that’s one I think we’ve mentioned way before as well.

Katy: Yep.

Debbie: And we’ve had World Arthritis Day, and it’s all been about achieving your dreams. So just, this is what we’re here for a charity for as well. And we just want to inspire people and goes back to my GPS theory of life. You can still have your dreams. It will just detour you in a way that you’ll learn more and more about yourself, but you can still achieve them if you really want to

Katy: Yeah. And you learn so much more about your own body. I think that’s the biggest sort of lesson is you kind of understand yourself and what you need a lot more.

Debbie: Completely. So, for more information, please look at our website, inflammatoryarthritis.org, where you can also sign up to our newsletter and you’ll get the most up-to-date information about all our episodes, our upcoming episodes, any research opportunities and other events as well. We are also on social media. We’re on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn and Blue Sky. And you can also watch these episodes on YouTube. So please hit that subscribe button. But until next week, Katy it’s goodbye.

Katy: Goodbye.